MUB’s Echoua Gouriye: The Syriac people demand their place in a new Syria. Whatever Syria’s future holds, we want to be a part of it

Echoua Gouriye, a member of the Executive Council of the Bethnahrin National Council (Mawtbo Umthoyo d’Bethnahrin, MUB), spoke at length on YouTube channel Sbuthan, assessing the latest political developments in Syria and the inner dynamics of the Syriac (Aramean-Assyrian-Chaldean) people in the homeland and in the diaspora. Below Gouriye’s assessment. 

Sbuthan presenter Shleymun Rhawi — The situation in Syria after the fall of Bashar al-Assad.. power transferred from a dictatorial regime to a government with, let’s call it, a dark past. Many people expected positive developments, but so far, it hasn’t met those expectations. You, as Bethnahrin National Council, have been there from day 1 of the Syrian civil war and have witnessed all the disorder and turmoil. What is your assessment of what has happened so far?

Echoua Gouriye — The situation is of course not new to us; it goes back to 2011. Until the fall of the Ba’ath regime, we as Bethnahrin National Council, actively worked to establish and expand our organization here in Syria and we entered into a full partnership that led to the foundation of the Democratic Autonomous Administration of the Region of North and East Syria (DAARNES). 

In recent years, we have been embroiled in political and armed conflicts, both with the former regime and with other forces such as the Islamic State (ISIS) and Jabhat al-Nusra, which have invaded our homes, properties, and estates. Our comrades from Sutoro (Internal Security Forces), the Syriac Union Party, and other of our affiliated organizations were able to resist fiercely on the battlefield and actively engage in the political domain. 

Our proud comrades were able to fight and resist ISIS in, for example, the Khabur River Valley. Many of our comrades have been martyred. 

We have not accepted anyone’s guardianship. We worked with the armed forces here in the Autonomous Administration to defend and protect our own villages, towns and properties. This concerns the period up to December 2024. 

After the fall of the Bashar al-Assad regime.. it shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone how this new government came about. What plans were rolled out here!? Out of nowhere, Ahmad al-Sharaa came to power within days. 

Many expected positive changes and progress. There was an overall positive atmosphere, with the expectation that the situation for the Syrian population in general would improve. Unfortunately, we have found out that the problems have not disappeared. Worse, sectarian strife increased exponentially since. 

Regional powers also intervened: in defense of a specific segment of society or on behalf of a population group, to come to their protection and/or to gain a foothold in Syria. Amidst all this disorder and unrest, we saw the government fail to protect the country’s different population groups. It also failed to establish inclusive governance, one that embraces all population groups and involves them in the country’s governance. No positive steps were taken towards freedom, stability and security for the population. We saw government security forces and the various militias, which were brought under the government’s umbrella, launch heavy attacks—all within a short period of time—at the Syrian coast, against Christian villages in Inner Syria, such as Homs, Tartus, and, in the beginning, Aleppo. 

We have lived through all these conflicts and killings. We are still living through them. The suicide bombing of the Rûm Orthodox St. Elias Church in Damascus is a striking example of that. 

Perhaps some thought the fighting would stop. Unfortunately, the opposite is true, as we have seen a resurgence. In recent weeks, we all witnessed numerous massacres in Suwayda. 

Taking all this together, the future for Syria looks bleak. The picture is one of a government that has failed to extend its power across Syria. Their assumption that they could govern all of Syria as they did in Idlib proved wrong. Based on that assumption, we see conflicts escalating and attacks on the population increasing. 

Shleymun Rhawi — Since the change in government, the state and its influence and reach have weakened. Much of the state’s infrastructure has been destroyed, particularly that of the army. The new leader, Ahmad al-Sharaa, and his government are weak—even internationally. There appear to be hidden alliances, intrigues, and agreements, which can also change quickly. Regional powers are interfering. What is your analysis of this chaotic power game? Who are the driving forces in Syria’s future, and how do you see your Syriac people in this? 

Echoua Gouriye — The situation in Syria is currently truly chaotic. This goes for the entire Middle East. There are many geopolitical interests at play. Today, our country—a country with a great diversity of peoples, religions, and cultures, many of which align more closely with European values—is being imposed with an extreme Islamic ideology. The Syrian government is trying to roll out this ideological system nationwide. Many countries in the region want to benefit from this. 

Also: On the one hand, US policy toward Syria after the fall of Bashar al-Assad is not entirely clear. We are experiencing the same problems as under al-Assad. The US appears to be clinging to a centralized political system for Syria. On the other hand, Turkey is playing the card of the Kurds in the Democratic Autonomous Administration. It demands that they surrender their weapons and join the central government. The events on the coast and in Suwayda showed us how the central government tried to impose this centralized system on the whole of Syria. 

Considering all this, it is not evident where they want to bring Syria. But there is one known fact: all the peoples of Syria have suffered greatly. They have lived through 60 years of dark and bloody dictatorship. Syrians were unable to breathe. They could not develop their country and thrive like the other peoples and nations of the world. After the darkness of the last 60 years, another extreme ideology is being empowered in Syria. 

Shleymun Rhawi — How much breeding ground is there for this strict ideology and, for example, the introduction of Sharia law? 

Echoua Gouriye — The ideological reality stems from the process I just mentioned: sixty years of deliberate isolation and distancing from the developed world. For sixty years, the Ba’ath Party’s policy was aimed at keeping certain population groups at bay and distance them from global developments, knowledge, and science. This was especially true for the regions, cities, and nomadic peoples far from the capital, Damascus. Moreover, the regime kept immerses them with strict Islamic teachings. 

Now that the Alawite Bashar al-Assad is gone, many of these people, mostly Sunnis, long for someone who can guide them in this strict ideology. This breeding ground for extremism cannot take root if it is not ideologically nourished by surrounding countries and ideologies, because Syrians are not extremists by nature. 

But because strict ideologies have been nurtured and reinforced, the various population groups no longer trust each other. Let’s face our current reality. The Alawites no longer trust the Sunnis to hand over all power to them. The Druze no longer trust the Sunnis, and vice versa. The same applies to the Kurds. And the actions of the current government have only fueled this distrust. 

If a system had been introduced from the outset in which all peoples were involved in the creation of the new constitution and decision-making, and in which all Syrian population groups were given their place, the picture would have been very different. A foundation for peaceful coexistence would have been laid, with everyone receiving their fair share. The current policy does not align with the demands and wishes of the Syrian citizen. Therefore, we see the problems gradually increasing instead of decreasing. This is due to the way the old political system is continued and nurtured. 

However, if you look at the social history of Syria, you see that the Syrian people are a people who want to live, trade, and flourish. The Syrian people have proven many times in history their ability to create civilizations. 

Shleymun Rhawi — You spoke about trust between different population groups. How much trust do we, the Syriacs, have in the other components and in the central government? The reason I ask this is that history has shown that such sectarian conflicts have always backfired on us. We always lost. 

Echoua Gouriye — We must learn from the 8 months that passed. We, as Syriacs-Assyrians and as Christians, remember well the events of recent years in Iraq. Events that drove our people to despair. Hundreds of thousands of our Chaldean-Syriac-Assyrian people emigrated. We as a people have failed in Iraq because our secular organizations and churches failed to safeguard our rights. Yet, we still have hope for our people in Iraq that this will change. 

The situation in Syria is like that in Iraq. We as a people can still achieve much here. A few months ago, the President of the Bethnahrin National Council, Comrade Michael, outlined the situation, needs, and demands of our people in Syria. It was a call to action, a policy program for our people for a new Syria.  

First, he emphasized the need for joint action, for our organizations and churches to come together and create a platform that will articulate the demands of Christians and Syriacs-Assyrians for a new Syria. 

Secondly, he turned his back on the past and wanted to look beyond all the small quarrels that had arisen between organizations, churches, political parties, and denominations. He called for an end to all this, given the current tense situation in Syria, which carries many risks but also offers opportunities to assert our rights.  

Therefore, on behalf of the Bethnahrin National Council, he apologized to all these parties. 

From the moment of his call until now, it has become clear that many of these parties lacked sufficient understanding of the depth, scope, sensitivity, and present danger facing Christians in Syria.  

This is particularly evident in the attitude of our churches. Our patriarchs have failed to formulate joint demands and come up with a comprehensive policy program. They did not co-opt our political parties nor our civil society organizations. They are going their own way. As if the problem of Christians in Syria isn’t their own. Although they have their residences here in Syria, they are rarely present there.  

So, what are Christians to make of this? They are losing faith in their organizations, especially in the churches in which they had previously placed their trust. People realize they cannot continue on this path. And because they see no concrete steps from their church leaders, their fear for the future is growing. Will Christians face new attacks? Will they be killed? Will their assets be confiscated? 

Shleymun Rhawi — Was the Levantine National Council founded as the platform you just mentioned, a Christian platform to address these issues? 

Echoua Gouriye — Three months ago, we began working with our comrades and friends here in Syria to establish the Levantine National Council. We have Christians in Wadi Nasara (Valley of Christians), Hama, Aleppo, and Damascus. We reached many Christians of the different denominations there.  

We have now established the Levantine National Council, and it is operational. But this is not enough. At least, not yet. The reasons are valid ones:  

Firstly, the people in these areas, only recently liberated from the yoke of a suffocating dictatorship, are still afraid of everything and everyone. They trust no one, no organization. Moreover, the churches have proven unable to protect their people. The people are searching. 

Those who now form the incumbent government have planted themselves wherever our people are present. As a result, our people lack the confidence to unite, to manifest themselves as citizens, or to protest. 

Our goal now is to further expand and deepen our organization in Syria and restore our people’s self-confidence. Their self-confidence. Their confidence that they can stand up for their own problems and make a difference. 

Secondly, it is common knowledge that many of our people have been in financial straits since the outbreak of the war in 2011. The fall of the Ba’ath regime has further exacerbated this. People now dare not travel for work or business and stay at home. The central government simply ignores them. The churches lack the resources or a robust program to adequately support their people. As a people and as Christians, we also lack the support of international public opinion and world powers to come to our aid. 

International opinion and the media are paying a lot of attention to the various population groups in Syria. There’s a lot of attention for what the Kurds want, what the Druze want, what the Alawites want, and what the Sunnis want. But where do we Christians and Syriacs-Assyrians stand in this public debate? They talk about us as victims, that nothing should happen to us, that we must be protected. Okay, but how? How, if you don’t have the means to represent yourself, to protect yourself. 

It’s not a blame game. Issues complement each other. If one element of the chain is missing, it can have disastrous consequences. That’s why we must continue to struggle for our cause. Many of our demands are fundamental. We have given many martyrs for our cause. Our parents and grandparents worked hard on this land for thousands of years, with sweat and with blood. 

Little international attention is paid to the Christians and the Syriac-Assyrian population in Syria. We must investigate and address the causes of this, so that we can also bring the demands of the Christian and the Syriac-Assyrian population in Syria to international negotiation tables and secure something for us out of this chaos. 

Shleymun Rhawi — Thank you for this perspective. I want to return to the call by Michael Naim Hadodo, President of the Bethnahrin National Council. He called on every individual, organization, church, and party to take responsibility. What do you think is the reason that some churches, political parties, and civil society organizations remain unresponsive to this call? What are your expectations of them, both in Syria and in the diaspora? 

Echoua Gouriye — Today, a new Middle East is forming. Within this developing constellation, we see many wars. Each country has its own interests and vision of how the Middle East should look like. Moreover, Hezbollah has not yet surrendered its weapons. We see the Houthis in Yemen still firing missiles at Israel. The war between Israel and Iran doesn’t seem to be over yet. So? What awaits us in the future? Wars! That much is clear to me. A war between Israel and Lebanon in the near future is certainly not unthinkable. Nor is a Western attack on Yemen—to further weaken Iran—unthinkable. 

We must ask ourselves the question where we as a people and as Christians will position ourselves!? All peoples will suffer from these wars. That is the truth.  

The Christians in Lebanon will suffer from war. It will not just be a war between Israel and Hezbollah. Are our Christians in Lebanon prepared for this? What if ISIS and other extremist terrorist organizations get involved in this war? How are our Christians prepared for this? The major Western countries will not come to the protection of smaller Christian areas in this Christian village or that Christian city. That is our own responsibility. 

What is required of us now to be prepared for what is to come?  

First and foremost, our people in the diaspora must make their voices heard en masse in protest against attacks on Christians. Take, for example, the suicide attack on the Rûm Orthodox St. Elias Church. In the diaspora, only a few hundred of our people took to the streets. Compare this to other peoples; they, in similar cases, protest with tens of thousands of people, demanding their rights. We have a diaspora as large as that of other Middle Eastern peoples. Where, then, is the Syriac-Assyrian voice in all the diaspora countries where we live? Where is the massive call for our protection and constitutional rights? This protest voice is desperately needed. It is something that must reside within us. And I believe it is within us, but there’s no one who can organize it. 

Secondly, our people have reached high political positions in the diaspora. Our politicians, in whatever capacity, must stand firm and demand our rights. Activism is essential. Such activism is enduring and will bear fruit here in our homelands. 

Thirdly, Syriacs-Assyrians and Christians in general are in dire need of an umbrella representative body in their homeland, one that represents the overall Syriac-Assyrian and Christian voice to the world on international media platforms. 

Finally, if our churches truly want to be politically engaged, let them open their doors to experienced and specialized people in this field and collaborate with them. What happens too often now is that a church, for example, issues a statement against the actions of an important regional power. Such statements often turn out counterproductive for our people. 

Shleymun Rhawi — Thank you very much. Any concluding remarks? 

Echoua Gouriye — Our call and hope is that our Christian Syriac-Assyrian people will claim a place among the nations, a claim worthy of our history and ancestors. These times pose a threat to many ancient peoples. Like all other peoples, no less, no more, we want to preserve and protect our cities, heritage, and name. And whatever Syria’s future holds, we want to be a part of it.